The Guns & Ammo Network



What Would You Do?

Well-known trainer Gabe Suarez has a site called Warrior Talk and commented recently on the Sept. 6 shooting at an International House of Pancakes in Carson, City, Nev. If you recall the incident, a man with a record of mental illness shot 12 people, killing four, including three National Guardsmen.

The owner of a barbecue restaurant across the street told the local media he had a pistol at hand, but thought better of putting it up against the killer’s AK-47. “You just can’t believe the amount of rounds coming out of that gun. There was no way that I was gonna go up and try to shoot him. He had too much firepower,” he said.

Suarez criticized the restauranteur on his site (http://www.warriortalknews.com/) for failing to fire on the criminal. Several of those commenting on his take (though not Suarez) tossed the term “coward” into the discussion.

I think we can all agree that if the man from the barbecue stand had charged across 100 yards of parking lot successfully to put a stop to the shooting spree, that would have been very praiseworthy. Would it, however, have been good tactics? Pistols, as experts from Jeff Cooper on down have reminded us, are arms of defense, not offense.

The barbecue man had no way of knowing whether the gunman was alone or part of a gang. Leaving his station would have left his own family and customers defenseless. He well might have been shot himself while running in the open, with his pistol taken out of the fight.

Should he have taken a potshot at the killer from long range, hoping to startle him into keeping his head down? Sounds good if you’re sure the bad guy is alone, which the purveyor of pulled pork was not. Taking that circus pop might have drawn rifle fire back through his own front window. Press reports didn’t indicate what sort of sidearm he had: could have been a Coonan .357, could have been a Ruger LCP. A 100-yard shot with the former might have made an impact. With the latter, not so much.

In short, the man in the apron faced a terribly dangerous and confusing situation the likes of which very few us, thank God, will ever confront. Some of those vilifying him from the comfort of their computer keyboards feel free to assert he had only two choices: reckless heroism or cowardice.

My guess is that it’s a lot easier to imagine grabbing a pistol and charging a nut shooting an AK while seated in your easy chair, a warm drink at your side, than it is when bullets are flying. I’d be happy to hear different from anyone who’s ever done it, but my guess is the list of those who’ve done it and lived is a short one.

In my mind the barbecue man was right to get his gun, stay alert and stand ready to protect his family and customers pending the arrival of the SWAT team. What do you think?

  • http://www.contracostaopencarry.org/ Contra Costa Open Ca

    I have been saying this same thing to all my members. It makes more sense to stay put and protect you and yours in this type of situation.

    He wanted to help. The best he could do is stay safe, keep his family safe, and be a good witness.

    Dale

    President, Contra Costa Open Carry

    • Rusty Shackleford

      YES EXACTLY ! :3))

  • mike

    Hindsight is 20/20. I am sure the bbq guy has played it out a thousand times in his head what he could of done differently. He has probably wondered to himself if he could of saved anyone and it will haunt him for sometime.

    I wasn't there, I don't know all the facts but I feel he made the right choice. He was out gunned and possibly out numbered. Anyone who calls him a coward is simply an armchair quarterback who think there Rambo.

  • http://wildfowlmag.com Roland Millington

    In that instance, unless you have at least a match of firepower and a superior knowledge of the terrain, and engagement forces, you do not attack. And that's not me saying that, that is Sun Tzu saying that.

    The "purveyor of pulled pork" was right in not going up against the gunman, as he was outgunned, and his immediate concern and responsibility was to his own patrons.

    • skipper

      lol, purveyors of pork pulling should be ready at all times to charge a machine gun nest, those pigs aren't going to kill themselves…seriously, though, a good comment roland.

  • Bocephus

    The BBQ shop owner did the right thing. It would have been bad tactics to leave his restaurant with a short range weapon like a pistol and charge an AK 47 for over 100 yards. His primary duty is to keep his family safe. Its too bad criminals choose establishments they know are unarmed to shoot up. Have you ever noticed when a good guy shoots back the first thing the bad guy does is tuck tail and run? Bad guys are only as strong as their advantage.

    • jerry bynum

      Your absolutely right Bocephus, bad guys have always been cowards, as long as they're the only ones with a gun they feed off the fear that it instills in others. this is why we need a national right to carry law.

  • Rusty Shackleford

    You could train to hit a target at 100 yds with any pistol. I have seen it done. Now, try to hit the perp at 100 yds while adrenaline and fright are affecting you. The BBQ man did the right thing, and I'm sure GOD agrees also.

  • Rusty Shackleford

    I would like to see Gabe Suarez go up against the perp with a .2lr derringer. . . Lets see you bash about 100yd shots and engaging the perp now ! The main thing that I noticed was that the press did not indicate what type of gun the BBQ man had, so Gabe Suarez is automatically wrong on anything that he says to justify self defense. The BBQ man used self defense in his area of effect, and he would be considered a righteous man.

  • http://www.warriotalk.com Gabe Suarez

    Read the entire article gents before commenting on what I wrote. I stand by what I have said. It is easy to simply say, "I will only protect me and mine". I think it is harder to act to save others. Yet the latter is far more noble. Funny how quick the emotions flare when an article challenges people's self image don't you think.

    If you disagree with me, come and comment on it at warriortalk.com. But don't just stomp your feet and cry…give a sound arguement about why you are right and I am wrong.

    • http://www.shotgunnews.com Robert W. Hunnicutt

      And let's keep in mind, as I stated above, Gabe Suarez never used the term "coward," as did some of those who responded to him. I'm a lot more bothered about that than I am about Suarez' original commentary. I found his take unpersuasive, but it was made without any name-calling, which is how it needs to be.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      We are not crying, we are correct. This is a type of forum, and obviously we know that BBQ man can shoot 100yds and hit his target every time with his trusty .25 auto derringer, and get headshots. BBQ man can also run 100 yds in 12 seconds because he is a marathon runner in his prime condition, and he will of course not be jittery when he gets to the situation. BBQ man is also confident in his .25 auto tac derringer that he can reload in .25 seconds, and still have time for a hero's dinner at IHOP. . . I know what your trying to say Gabe, but I cant back you up on this one. You should have worded it differently, instead of bashing on BBQ man. :3))

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Gabe, I really like all of your articles except this one. We all know that you "indirectly" called BBQ man a coward, and that is not cool. Not everyone is a mall ninja like you, and BBQ man just didn't have the "ninja spirit" to take down this threat. Since BBQ guy does not have the ninja spirit, he might of missed at 100yds with his tac derringer, hitting or killing innocent civilians. Man I wish you were there Gabe to diffuse the situation ! :3))

    • KenJ

      Gabe. To answer "give a sound arguement about why you are right and I am wrong" I would respectfully submit that many above have already done that without stomping their feet and cry. The ONLY scenario I can imagine, and I have tried to imagine situations such as this, is when I was alone without any "innocents" nearby and the shooter is clearly identified, and most importantly, knowing what is behind the target. If you fire and hit someone other than the target you will be facing possible Murder 2 charges, at best voluntary manslaughter. If I fire and return fire hits an innocent I will be haunted the rest of my life plus face very likely charges.

  • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

    "Rusty",

    Bro…you don't have to like my articles, but you have to agree…they get read. I see alot of emotion in your post.

    "….and obviously we know that BBQ man can shoot 100yds and hit his target every time with his trusty .25 auto derringer, and get headshots. BBQ man can also run 100 yds in 12 seconds because he is a marathon runner in his prime condition, and he will of course not be jittery when he gets to the situation. BBQ man is also confident in his .25 auto tac derringer that he can reload in .25 seconds, and still have time for a hero’s dinner at IHOP."

    and…

    "We all know that you “indirectly” called BBQ man a coward, and that is not cool. Not everyone is a mall ninja like you, and BBQ man just didn’t have the “ninja spirit” to take down this threat. Since BBQ guy does not have the ninja spirit, he might of missed at 100yds with his tac derringer, hitting or killing innocent civilians. Man I wish you were there Gabe to diffuse the situation ! "

    See what I mean? No…you don't but that is fine.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      “….and obviously we know that BBQ man can shoot 100yds and hit his target every time with his trusty .25 auto derringer, and get headshots. BBQ man can also run 100 yds in 12 seconds because he is a marathon runner in his prime condition, and he will of course not be jittery when he gets to the situation. BBQ man is also confident in his .25 auto tac derringer that he can reload in .25 seconds, and still have time for a hero’s dinner at IHOP.” Yea, that is probably what you would have said about BBQ man. Who cares about this" emo" that you talk about. You called him a coward by indirect means, end of story. Yea, maybe I should be emo for BBQ man, as he is an American ! :3))

  • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

    Gents,

    When I wrote the article I expected it to be discussed in many places. Many other places let emotion and anger that I dare question their image of how things should go guide their discussion, and that, as we know, leads nowhere.

    First point – that we are monday-morning quarter backing the event. Well, yes. As unpopular as that may be in American sports, how else are we to learn from an event and from the actions of those involved? I recall from my SWAT days that we monday morning quarterbacked everything. As well, I know that my friends in the current spec-ops community do the same. And if I am involved in a gunfight today, I expect you will do the same with my own actions. It is what it is, hopefully a learning tool, and not something to get one's ego in a twist over.

    Second point – the idea that you carry ONLY to protect yourself and your family. Well, as I said…one cannot fault that view, but the other side of the coin is that you cannot be everywhere can you? And if I was there, but you were not, would you want me to have the same view about intervening? Again…this becomes a big emotional thing to some. Kinda like telling a girl that those pants do in fact make her look fat. Her tears will not eliminate the fact that she weighs 300 pounds.

    Third point – Capability. Some guys cannot and that is that. The older gent with the bad eyes and arthritic fingers using the walker? He's not going to be able to do anything here regardless of what his heart tells him. Now that is an extreme, but as old Harry C used to say, a man must know his limitations. But my own corrolary to Harry is that every man should seek to extend those limitations in skill development and training.

    The BBQ man did not say he was physically feeble, nor poorly armed. The only reason he sited was distance and disparity of tools. Those were the reasons illustrated in the piece. He was close enough to have been able to see everything however. So from what I get of the statements, there was no ambiguity of what was happening.

    Look guys…the point here…the most important point is this. This event was not unusual at all in our times. It keeps happening and whether the killer is a nut with an axe to grind, or some sort of terrorist, the authorities will never be in time to save anyone. All one has to do is look at the list of shootings to see that. The only people that will be in a position to act will be people like you…hopefully skilled and trained CCW civilians. I am not asking anyone to do what they know they cannot do, only to not sell themselves short on what they can accomplish. If every CCW person simply ran for their life, then guys like Hasan, Sencion, Talović, and others like them will always succeed with their plans, innocents will die, and nothing will change.

    Another write up by one of our staff, John Chambers (former US Army LRS) on the Fort Hood murders.

    WARRIOR TALK NEWS – Lessons from Jihad in America

  • skipper

    IF you're a crack shot, great with a handgun, and see a way to close to 20 yards without getting seen, it MIGHT make sense to attempt to stop a lunatic with grossly superior firepower. But that's a whopper IF, isn't it? Boils down to about .05% of the populace who could even hit something with a handgun.

    I'm nervous these days anytime anyone I love gets on bus, or god forbid, a train, where guns are illegal to carry but there is no screening whatsoever. Especially in states like IL, where being a sheep is state law.

    • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

      Well, yeah…I hear you skipper. It is easier in some areas than in others. But I will point out that the killing at Trolley Square was stopped by off-duty police officer Kenneth Hammond, and the killing in Colorado Springs was stopped by Jeanne Assam. So it is not as impossible as guys like Rusty would have us think.

      If nothing else, don't sell short your ability to turn the tables on an evil event.

      • http://www.shotgunnews.com Robert W. Hunnicutt

        I think we all agree that heroism is a good thing and is to be aspired to, but failing to be a hero doesn't make you a coward. I am recalling the criteria for the Medal of Honor. If you fail to do the qualifying deed, there is no stigma you have failed to do your duty. The Medal of Honor deed is above and beyond that call of duty. If you, with a pistol, charge a criminal with an AK, I regard that as Medal of Honor country, and only about 350 were awarded among 12 million who served in World War II. We all might aspire to be Audie Murphy, but few are chosen.

        • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

          Robert,

          You wrote: "The Medal of Honor deed is above and beyond that call of duty. If you, with a pistol, charge a criminal with an AK, I regard that as Medal of Honor country, and only about 350 were awarded among 12 million who served in World War II".

          I agree there as well, but will add that those guys were not awarded their actions…they self selected for that. As well a study of MOH winners will reveal that many are what one might call "regular guys", rather than super soldiers.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Yea, Gabe thinks that everyone is a armchair commando, which is kinda ignorant. His tactics are very fail. . . And so are his write ups because the only defense that he has is to "talk about it on HIS forums" and by calling peoples posts emo . . . HA HA HA ! WOW how comedic ! I guess he knows if he's wrong here, he cannot delete/ban people for free speech against his theories.

  • Rusty Shackleford

    Now, if BBQ man would have had a .45 or a 9mm or a 357 or a . . . He would have helped/botched the situation. Gabe obviously speaks before he has all of the info at hand, and since we do not know all of the variables, we cannot say for a certainty that BBQ man had adequate firepower. . . Gabe's long post just means that he is getting Emo about this, when, case in point, we do not know all of the variables.

  • Rusty Shackleford

    Quote from Gabe . . . "If every CCW person simply ran for their life, then guys like Hasan, Sencion, Talović, and others like them will always succeed with their plans, innocents will die, and nothing will change." . . . . . . . For your info BBQ man DIDN'T RUN FROM HIS POST . Like I said, speaking without information at hand is like babbling in another language. No one can understand you, and no one will want to. :3))

  • Rusty Shackleford

    GOD BLESS BBQ MAN ! He did not run from his post ! BBQ man would have made a honorable solider. . . :3))

  • Jeff

    What would make more sense is a population that is armed all the time. I carry everywhere. You just never know. America is full of great Americans. Carry a weapon and do your part in keeping society safe.

    • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

      I agree 100% with you Jeff. If that were the case, i suspect far more of these things would get nipped in the bud.

  • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

    You guys should see Rusty's (aka finalfantis) email to me. He goes on and on about why he hates me and why I am this-and-that, and so-on-and-so-on. Makes one wonder if he is really a highschool girl with all the drama. Notice he is the only one getting wildly emotional and attempting to be insulting as well.

    As Shakespere once wrote – "Thou doth protest too much".

    • http://www.shotgunnews.com Robert W. Hunnicutt

      That's "The lady doth protest too much," (Hamlet) but point taken. I don't want SGN.com to be a hotbed of flaming, so let's all keep the ad hominem stuff down to a dull roar. There's been some thoughtful commentary on this issue, and that's the way I want it. Plenty other places for one-upsmanship.

      • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

        Agreed 100% sir. In any case…my flight to Texas is about to leave. If anyone has any questions…feel free to contact me direct.

        info@suarezinternational.com

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Ha Ha Ha , okay . . . ? I guess you have some flame fantasy or something. What's next, are you going to challenge me to a gun duel and whoever wins is right? . . . Psssh . . . Please :3))

    • Jake Miller

      Sounds like you guys had a really funny correspondence. But I doubt it was as funny as the time that you challenged any takers to a real life gun duel at an undisclosed location in Colombia. Here's the thread in question: http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?76039-D…

      To paraphrase Shakespeare, perhaps the internet tough guy / mall ninja doth protest too much.

  • http://www.tsdcombatsystems.com Gabe Suarez

    To add –

    Matthew J. Murray using a Bushmaster 5.56 M4 style rifle killed five people on December 9, 2007 at the New life church in Colorado. Yes, it was not an AK, but still.

    What happened? A young lady named Jeanne Assam shot him with a handgun. The pastor of the church stated that Assam shot Murray before he entered 50 feet (15 m) inside the building, after she encountered him in the hallway, and that Assam probably saved "over 100 lives."

    Good thing nobody told her that she was a mall ninja or anything like that…or that she should have hunkered down and waited for help. ;)

    • Rusty Shackleford

      Hmm, I think a hallway is a lot closer than a 100 yd parking lot. . . :3))

    • Rob

      This person was already onsite and in a position of danger, had a gun and used it to defend all. I would have had to have done the same thing if armed. I believe anybody armed would have done so? But this does not compare to leaving your businees and walking 100 yards to jump in a fight with possibly 2 or more perps with assault weapons! And since you or I was not there it is very hard to pass judgement. I believe all business owners should be armed and have training to protect their customers!

  • http://bbqsmokersforsaleinfo.com Bean bbq smokers for

    I agree with his action to get his gun. He must protect the family and keep them safe first. It is hard to face AK-47, right? in that dangerous situation, we should not take that risk.

  • Jake Miller

    I agree with Gabe Suarez, BBQ man was being cowardly. Using a pistol to engage an enemy who is 100 yards away from you is a perfectly sound tactic. I do it all the time in Call of Duty and get tons of kills. You guys should join my clan, it's called Mall Ninjas 4 Life.

  • RT Smith

    I can't agree with Gabes article as a whole. BBQ man would have more than likely been engaged by SWAT and killed himself in his jaunt to gain position. Out of hundreds of shooters I do not know a single one who can make a 100 yard pistol shot with a CCW weapon. By the time 12 seconds had elapsed do we know whether the guy was standing statically in the same spot? Do we know that the shooter did not have enough determination that a errant shot or even a grazer would have demotivated him or enraged him further? This is bad armchair strategizing at its finest. If the BBQ man was in the AO then yes action would have possibly been successful. He was not however. If BBQ man had a .308 with a good scope, yes again there is a reasonable chance of success. Again he didn't.

    The answer clearly is more CCW in more peoples hands. Anything else is irresponsible posturing.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      +1 to RT Smith ! I agree with you fully, as you understand that it is close to impossible to expect the BBQ man to run 100yds in under 12 seconds and not be tired, aim at the perp with no fear whatsoever and land a vital shot with a Ruger LCP, and finally have time for a hero's breakfast at IHOP. Mall Ninjas, beware ! Shotgun News is reality, not a fantasy land for the Rambo types.

      @ Jake Miller . . . . . . . WOW you agree with Gabe. . . How can a normal person shoot that far, unless BBQ man was a ex-Navy Seal ! This is what I'm talking about. . . People expecting the impossible/nearly impossible from BBQ man. . .

    • R Davis

      Thats the correct answer. More people with CCW permits. Here in Utah we have CWP about 1 in 10 carry concealed weapons. We have no problems with idiots at BBQ places or any other places of business. Yet surprisingly not very many firearm accidents. Like they would have people believe. It appears from the other end of the U.S.A. that our gun laws keep that sort of problem back east.

  • just some dummy on t

    I think it is irresponsible to suggest that the man in question here should have acted any way other he did. We can all Monday morning this all we want. The facts remain, an in my mind, indicate that any other action on the part of the BBQ owner would have been both imprudent and negligent.

  • Kent C, Nordland

    Let's quit the spitting contest. The BBQ guy acted properly.

    End of story.

  • Paul

    sorry

    I have got to be the guts and glory guy

    I would have tried to make my way over there and tried to "take the shot"

    win or lose, I could not stand and watch/listen to that going on

    keep your cover – take your shot

  • Charles

    Was it a reallity show doing mock shooting with hidden cameras, if he had taken the shot and hit a bystander and killed them he would have been charged with manslaughter, not to mention the confussion when law enforcement showed up… noone can tell what their reaction will be until it happens to them (fight or flee). BBQ dude did the right thing but if I was him I'd think about having a rifle handy and some friends with rifles at the ready so the next gun fight he encounters he will be covered…

  • Bobby

    This is an interesting situation here. I just returned from my second tour in Iraq, and let me tell you, i dont like being on the recieving end of AK47 fire. Its hard to say what anyone would have done unless they were there, but can you really fault the guy for going into a defensive posture? In the end people died, and you can play the guessing game forever and a day, but his actions may have prevented more deaths, namely his own. Would i have went at him? Maybe if i was in my MRAP with trusty Ma duece on the turret, in his situation, i think i would have protected my family and my patrons. Hes alive to live another day, and if anyone has live with what his action or inaction was, its him, for the rest of his life.

    • Dinny Dunne

      The most sensible reply so far, and it sounds like it's from a man who would know. BBQ man did what was right. He's not a SWAT team member, or a LEO who MUST take action. None of us know what we will do until we are in the situation.

    • DW-USMC

      Great comment Bobby. I'm a Viet Nam vet and think you nailed it. You don't know what the hell you would do in that situation. No matter how many combat missions you've been in. I don't know for sure what I would have done and pray I never find out. I also CCW and I will protect myself and others if, I can. I just hope I could do whats best at the time. Ya never know until you're faced with it. The BBQ man in my opinion, did what he had to. (given all I've read about it).

  • Lloyd Rakosnik

    Stay put. Call the Cops, and monitor the situation. If you must to shoot something shoot video. Now that the situation is over we know all or most of the facts. It is easy to see what could have been done IF things went our way IF we had intervened. Those are hugely big IFs.

    During a situation, as outlined in the above story, any person observing or involved is sorting data at a furious pace. The potential for critical error is huge and all the errors carry the possibility of being final. It's bad enough when we are the direct object of the assault and are making life and death decisions for ourselves and our loved ones without throwing strangers into the mix who are a considerable distance away. Compound that by looking at it from the standpoint of First Responders: Now they are required to sort victims from criminals and both from intervening citizens while the criminals are shooting and so are the citizens? As well trained as the police are, that seems a little over the top to me. An intervention action could have done more harm than good.

    Defense was and is the name of the game here. Charging into a situation like this one seems to smack of some sort of wish for 'sidewalk justice'. That is not what concealed carry is about. We carry for our own protection and while witnessing a shooting is horrific for those watching staying out of the situation was the proper decision. It makes it simpler for the police.

  • Dinny Dunne

    I went back and read Gabe's editorial and the comments to it.

    I also read another Gabe-ism that said he carries to protect himself and his loved ones. Period.

    He also says he (and his crew of admirers) regularly pratice handgun shots at 100 yards. I'm gonna try that with my Glock 27 .40 next time I'm at the range.

    I still believe A) You won't know what you'll do until confronted with the situation, B) Gabe makes sense for himself and his well trained/armed minions, and C) BBQ Man did the right thing. He protected himself and his patrons. It was up to a citizen in IHOP with his/her CCW to step up.

    • Dinny Dunne

      ps Shooting at the BG from 100 yards away might have just changed his target to the BBQ shop. I could do a lot of damage from 100 yards with a high powwer rifle.

  • Rick Cratty

    The "BBQ Man" did the exact correct thing. The only thing he would have likely accomplished by charging in, or firing a "distracting round" would have been MORE innocent blood. Now, why is it the we, with a permit, will carry "when it's legal" to protect life and limb, BUT when it's illegal our entire attitude changes to that of a well tamed sheep? So, going into a place that refuses to recognize a Constitutional Right is somehow "safer" than one that does? For those who own businesses that pull the "no gun here" garbage, perhaps it's time for those who were victimized to SUE the facility? And, perhaps it's time for citizens who don't want to be forced to make such an asinine "choice" to refuse to patronize such businesses, and make it very, very public as to why. A business that refuses to allow its customers and especially its employees the right to self protection makes a very clear statement that M O N E Y is the only thing they value. As such, we need to focus our attention on them and then take away, legally, the thing they have sold their souls to, $$$$.

  • keith Bayne

    he did the right thing.just because you are armed dont make you the police.lets not forget the hand gun is a defense weapon,not an offensive assault weapon.we ca "if" it for ever.what was his back ground,ex cop,xmilitary,or just citizen with a hand gun? it takes more than hardware to command a situation like this.a lot of psycological,physical components at play here.my instructor made a good point. a hand gun dont make you a cop,it dont make you instant brave and it dont stop you from dieing and it dont make you john wayne.haveing the tool is only a small part of getting the job done. long story short ,he made the right choice.

  • Ol' Redneck

    One New Years Day morning in Los Angeles, I was driving in to work my shift at the Van Nuys Patrol Division when I saw a man down on the sidewalk waving one arm weakly. On the odd chance that the man wasn't just a drunk, I stopped and walked up to the guy. He was bleeding from a couple of dozen holes from his neck to his upper thighs. The man had been jumped by some of our local gang members who had robbed him and stabbed him. I asked what happened. He told me that some guys jumped him and as they stabbed him, a guy drove up and slammed into one of the gangsters with his car, driving the attackers off.

    Moral of the story: Just because you only have a pistol doesn't mean that's all you have. You have other options. I would have driven my (or someone else's) car up to the guy and knocked him through the nearest wall. Then shot him if I had to. You gotta think about your options and don't limit yourself to only one option.

  • Mic

    It is my opinion that we are all responsible for our own safety and our own defense. The only ones that have others on hand to shoulder that responsibility for them is the President and those with enough financial backing. Most of the rest of us have only this choice- get a CCW and carry or hunker down and wait for help. I live in CA, so while the politicians can carry, us mere mortals cannot, for the most part- some are lucky enough to live in areas where they can. So while you guys argue about BBQ man and his choice, I'm asking why, in a place like NV where CCWs are much easier to obtain, were there not more people in the pancake house taking responsibility for their safety and defense?

  • Texas law dog,

    ol redneck, i agree with you on the often overlooked improvised weapon of choice being a vehicle in the right circumstances, but i dont know the circs on this shooting to know if it was practical, or tactical lol. my investigatory skills reveal youre a cop. me too. cali for 18 yrs, LASD, SBSD, and Riverside and 3 here in the wonderful state of TX, where i can FINALLY own a machine gun. i can honestly say that it is my DUTY to do something, which is why i NEVER go anywhere without a .40 glock or sig AND a back up mag. there is ALWAYS a HK G36, Colt 9mm sub gun, and an HK benelli12 ga in gun racks under the back seat of my truck/personal vehicle. i would certainly pop off some rounds at 100 yds in an attempt to distract and save lives, but without the heavy stuff in the truck handy, it would suck. i truly believe EVERYONE should carry. thats the only way, to stop this type of attack. NOT prevent, as nothing will prevent it, but we all can stop it after it starts and the more guns the merrier.

  • Bruce Campbell

    There's not a lot of information on the BBQ owner. Has he had any combat training. Was there available cover for safer advancement? What sort of pistol did he have at hand? Granted most are not real accurate at that distance and these situations can cause the shooter to have a shaky hand. Personally if it were me and I had my GP100 I would have taken a shot from that distance.

  • Bill

    I have strong ties to that community and carrying my 6" Ruger 357 I would have taken the shot, THAT time. Conditions allowing. At least I try to get position on him to help end the situation.

  • Steven Kage

    The bad end to the story is not on the BBQ guy-its on the victims who chose not to arm themselves for self-defense when they went out into the crazy World that day. The choice is always simple and always the same: On Your Feet, or On Your Knees.

  • jeffadaklin

    I noticed several folks mentioning we sould have more CC folks. I certainly agree, (knowing we all agree that only if they are all qualified.) But it made me wonder, what if 4-5 guys HAD been armed with pistols? And what if one ran toward the BG, intent on stopping him BUT- one of the OTHER CC holders thought he was the BG's accomplice? Methinks, as many have said- there just ain't enough known for certain, to know what BBQ-man should or shouldn't have done. gabe's position that taking a risk to save others may have merit- but until we know all the facts, it simply doesn't.

  • Charles

    I dont think he was a coward at all he showed a lot of good dission making he did what he did for the protection of his customers and his family all I can say is way to go and anyone who thinks that he is a coward has proable never looked down a barrel in there life or had anyone shooting at them think ppl he did what he thought was the right thing and in this case was

  • Mike Caddell

    I am a store-owner and I keep several loaded pistols handy in my store, including a S&W 1066 10mm, a S&W 357 compact revolver, and an AR15 carbine with 4-9X scope and loaded 30 rd mag. Anyone who charges a shooter who is using an AK47 or comparable rifle, himself armed with only a standard handgun, will more than likely just add to the final death toll by being shot and killed himself. If you doubt this you can set up a test case and see how it works. Take 10 shooters of comparable age, size, and capabilities to the AK47 shooter, and arm them with semi-auto paintball rifles in a setting similar to the situation that existed. Take 10 guys similar in skill, age, and physical attributes to the BBQ guy and arm them with paintball pistols. Then have one pistol bearer charge one of the rifle bearers, both firing paintballs at each other, and see what the outcome is. Repeat this 9 more times with the other 18 participants and get a fair average of the pistol-bearer's odds of survival against the rifle-bearer. Sounds like it might be an interesting exercise for SGN or Guns&Ammo to sponsor. I would predict an outcome of 8 victories for the rifle-shooter and 2 victories for the pistol-shooter, which would not be very good odds for the BBQ man.
    Mike